The following is a transcript of a Raised Catholic podcast episode. To listen to the episode, click here.

Today is episode 197: How to Discern When It’s Done

Hi friends. As I said in last week’s episode, we are in the final stretch (at least for now) of the Raised Catholic podcast. After almost four years, we’re wrapping it up at episode 200 which will air at the end of October 2024, but until then I thought we could unpack a few topics together. Today we’ll talk about how we as people of faith can discern when something is ending or when to stop or shift a ministry. Next week, I’ll tell the story of Raised Catholic from a lens of the Notre Dame Cathedral and the fire that started it all. And in the last two weeks, we’ll talk about the future of the Church from my perspective, the Synod on Synodality, and what’s next for me and for our community. And, yes, that is a lot for four episodes, so thanks for being on the road with me, friend. I truly appreciate it.

As I’ve said numerous times, a life of faith is something that we are meant to grow into, to keep learning and stretching in, and oftentimes this will require a shift or a change. After all, I hope none of us as adults are walking around with the 7-year-old first Communion faith that we were taught as CCD kids. Even Jesus, who is God, grew in wisdom, age and grace, and, friend, so should we. Sometimes that means acknowledging when something about our faith practice or ministry or belief system is just done. 

If you listen to this podcast, then you will know that there were a couple of times over these four years and almost 200 episodes when I wasn’t sure it should continue. In those seasons, I prayed and discerned and felt in my spirit that God was directing me to keep going, that this work had some value in the Kingdom that I might not always see, but that mattered. Also, the very process of making the podcast had been valuable to me and to my walk of faith. Though it is a good amount of work, making the Raised Catholic podcast each week had become a space in which I met and connected with God for myself. It gave a framework to my own prayer and study that was helpful especially when church isn’t always that place for me anymore. 

So how was this time different? How did I know in my spirit that it was time to close this chapter, at least for now? And how can you take what I’ve learned and apply these principles to changes in your own faith practice, ministry or belief system?

First, I would say that while roles, jobs, tasks, ministries and titles do and should change, vocation doesn’t change. Now here I don’t mean ‘vocation’ as in a priestly vocation or a marriage vocation, because obviously these change all the time. I know at least seven priests and a couple of nuns who’ve left those roles, and tons of people who’ve ended marriages, and I bet you do, too. But no, when I’m using the word ‘vocation’ here, I’m thinking a bit broader as in: what was I made for?

In episode 160: Your Vocation, I talk about vocation as “a call toward a certain work that makes your spirit sit up and take notice, which may feel as author Max Lucado describes as hitting a ball in the sweet spot of a bat. In that way, working within our vocation just kind of feels right, it makes sense to our souls. Author Frederick Buechner says, “The place God calls you is the place where your deep gladness and the world’s deep hunger meet.” And, oh, I love that.

In episode 100: What in God’s Name, I get into more detail on how to discover the nature of the work that God would have us do based on our makeup, our experience, our gifts and strengths, and then how to measure the fruit of that work. 

In episode 61: Sandwich Theology, I read that verse from 1Corinthians, you know, the one about the hands and feet and all the parts of the body, and how each one of us is a part that is needed in the Body of Christ. I talked about that concept in episode 40 too, one called ‘Pass it On,’ and in that episode I identify where I find my identity as a body part in the Body of Christ. And, no, I’m not an eye who sees or an ear who hears or a leg that walks alongside, though I know people who are each of those parts and they are awesome. No, I’m not a hand or an arm, but when I prayerfully look at the span of my life and all of the work that God has called me to, it seems clear that I am a voice – in my writing, speaking, teaching, and singing, this podcast, and all of the things I do and have done. And though my roles and work and ministries may change, being a voice as my vocation – well, that’s something that God put in me, and that will never change.

When I saw that I was approaching 200 episodes of this podcast, I had an inkling in my spirit that that number was significant, but at that time, I didn’t consciously consider making a change. In our lives, we get these hunches sometimes, don’t we, friend? And while a hunch is not the whole story, it is important to follow an arrow like this to see where it is leading. Author and podcaster Emily P. Freeman speaks often of seeking ‘arrows not answers’ in our road to finding our Next Right Thing. 

When we follow an arrow like this, we can journal and pray through questions like: 

Does this work or ministry feel life-giving or life-draining?

What is the fruit of this practice for me and for God’s people? Has that fruit changed over time?  and then we can align that fruit against the fruit of the Spirit. You know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. 

And is this work or ministry, even when it’s hard or challenging, bringing flourishing to me and to those who are receiving it?  

Am I doing something out of habit or from a place of intention? 

And as I ask author Barbra Brown Taylor’s famous question, ‘What is saving your life right now?’ would this work make the list? 

When determining whether it’s time to close a chapter, it’s crucial to pray of course, but also to seek out people you trust to speak into it with you. In this case, I asked three friends to pray and listen to God for me on where He might be leading me in this time. And they did it, thankfully, and they gave me some beautiful pictures that the Lord had showed them in their prayer – pictures of me beaming and happy on a new path, a picture of me balancing with my arms out – with Jesus walking behind me, a picture of me steering a sailboat in a new direction, of clear lights in the distance guiding me forward. And if you were born and raised Catholic, this might not be a way that you are accustomed to praying, but I highly recommend this practice of asking for a word or a picture for each other out on the road, and of course I asked God for images for my friends, too.

In some Protestant denominations, there is language around a ministry or person ‘losing an anointing’, and while I don’t necessarily subscribe to the idea of God withdrawing favor, I do think that sometimes a season just comes to a close, and He gives us the grace to know it. After all, our times and seasons are in His hand. Ecclesiastes says there’s a season for everything, and Isaiah says He is always at work making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. Making a way where there was no way. Making all things new.

But in the case of Raised Catholic, friend, I’ll tell you the story. One night I kneeled down to pray on the landing in front of the bedrooms where my now adult kids grew up. This is a practice that I took on once they were both fully moved out. I just kind of kneel there at the end of the day and I give my kids to God and along with them, all of my intentions and worries of the day. I had just thanked God for some blessings and exhaled a bit when out of the blue, I just knew that after almost four years and almost 200 episodes, that this season of weekly podcasting had come to a close. I just knew it. As I mapped out the remaining episodes and saw that number 200 would land on the Tuesday right before what might be the most contentious Tuesday of 2024, election day, I saw God’s kindness and Providence in the timing. And a supernatural peace came over me which I can’t really describe.

Because I know that there has been such good fruit here in these four years – in me but also in you, because you’ve been kind enough to tell me so, and I really appreciate that, by the way. My feeling is that my work and this beautiful community will continue in a way that I’m not quite sure about yet. Though I know that I’ll always be a voice for cradle Catholics on the margins who are seeking relationship with God both inside and outside of church walls, I don’t yet know what form that voice might take in the next chapter. 

The image that came to my mind as I kneeled there on my upstairs landing was of a treasure chest and the lid slowly closing, with all of the good stuff still inside, still ready to be discovered by anyone who wants to find it. And who knows, maybe my kids will even listen one day and grandchildren that I haven’t met, and if you are listening, hi! I hope it’s helpful. 😊 And the episodes are, of course, still available and transcripts, too, over at my website, kerrycampbell.org, along with all of the study resources in the show notes. I hope you will take advantage of all of that.

I guess the bottom line is that I started the Raised Catholic podcast because the Holy Spirit told me to, and I’m ending it for the same reason. I have some inclination that I will need open hands for whatever comes next, and, friend, I do hope that you’ll be there with me, too. 

As for today, thanks for listening. If you need me, you can find me on Instagram @kerrycampbellwrites, at Substack at kerrycampbellwrites.substack.com, or on my website at kerrycampbell.org. Thanks so much for rating, reviewing, subscribing and most importantly, sharing this podcast with a friend.  Yes, still, because that makes a real difference in growing this community which I hope will live on, so thanks. If you would like to support this podcast financially, there are a couple of ways for you to do that in the show notes, along with some resources related to today’s episode, so do check all of that out, but before we go, let’s pray together.

In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen.

Lord, you know when we sit and when we stand. You know our going out and our coming in and each one of our days was written in your book before one of them came to be. So, would you please guide us, Lord, to know our beginnings and our endings and to hold open hands for the goodness you have planned. For us and our dear ones, too, we pray in the name of Jesus, and wrapped in the mantle of our Mother Mary, amen.

Well thanks so much for listening today, friend. I’ll see you next time.

Show Notes

As I mentioned in last week’s episode, we’re in the home stretch (at least for now) of the Raised Catholic podcast. Today I’ll walk through and model when we can know when it’s time to shift, stop, or change a ministry, work, or belief system, all while staying consistently within the vocation that God had planned for us from the start.

If you’d like to connect with me, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠find me on Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠at my website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠on Substack⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. If you’d like to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠help support this podcast financially⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, there’s a way to do just that ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠on my page at buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! Thanks for sharing, subscribing, rating, and reviewing, as this helps our community to grow.

Thanks as always to my friend, Peter Vaughan-Vail, for providing the beautiful harp music you hear in this and every episode.

Here are some resources I hope will help you to engage with this week’s topic in a deeper way for yourself:

1. Raised Catholic episode ⁠160: Your Vocation⁠ – transcript and link to episode

2. Raised Catholic episode ⁠100: What in God’s Name⁠ – transcript and link to episode

3. Raised Catholic episode ⁠61: Sandwich Theology⁠ – transcript and link to episode

4. Raised Catholic episode ⁠40: Pass it On⁠ – transcript and link to episode

5. Book: ⁠Cure for the Common Life – Living Life in the Sweet Spot, by Max Lucado⁠

6. Book: ⁠Listening to Your Life – Daily Meditations, by Frederick Buechner⁠

7. Book: ⁠The Next Right Thing – A Simple, Soulful Practice for Making Life Decisions, by Emily P. Freeman⁠

8. Book: ⁠How to Walk into a Room – How to Know when to Stay or Walk Away, by Emily P. Freeman⁠

9. Lyric video: ⁠The Voyage, by Amanda Cook